0001 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 BEFORE THE 3 TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION 4 AUSTIN, TEXAS 5 BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING 6 7 8 9 10 MARCH 21, 2019 11 10:00 a.m. 12 AT 13 TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION 611 East 6th Street 14 Austin, Texas 78701 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Proceedings reported by electronic sound recording; transcript prepared by Verbatim Reporting & Transcription 25 LLC. 0002 1 APPEARANCES 2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 3 William T. Smith III 4 Kimberly Rogers 5 Will Martin 6 Tommy Duncan 7 Jason Pohl 8 Melodye Green 9 Emile Bourgoyne 10 11 COMMISSION STAFF: 12 Michael P. Farrell, Director 13 Tyler Vance, Staff attorney 14 15 PUBLIC: 16 Ronnie Baker 17 Stephen Fenoglio 18 Kim Kiplin 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE 1. Call to order . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 2. American Pledge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 3. Texas Pledge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5 4. Roll call . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 5. Meeting minutes from 10 Jan 2019 - Public comment6 7 6. Report on TLC Commissioners meeting (Trace) . . 6 8 7. Update on BAC recommendations to TLC (Michael 9 Farrell) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 - Negative net proceeds (back rent) 10 - Background checks - Paperless reporting 11 - Any other recommendations - Public comment 12 8. 2019 Bingo Rule Review . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 13 9. Nominations of BAC members . . . . . . . . . . 9 - Charity lessor group – Public comment 14 - General public group 15 10. Keller Workgroup Meeting Summary 21 Feb 19 – San Antonio, TX – Public comment . . . . . . . . . 23 16 11. Discussion & possible action on pull-tab rules 17 (Emile) – Public comment . . . . . . . . . . . 28 18 12. Conservative Texans for Charitable Bingo – Rally at Capitol (Will Martin) – Public comment . . . . 45 19 13. Texas Charity Advocates – Charity Day at the 20 Capitol invite – Tom Stuart – Public comment . 46 21 14. Any old business – Public comment . . . . . . . 47 22 15. Any new business – Public comment . . . . . . . 48 23 16. Set date for next meeting . . . . . . . . . . . 67 24 17. Adjourn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 25 0004 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2019 3 (10:00 a.m.) 4 AGENDA ITEM 1 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. We'll call to 6 order the Bingo Advisory Committee meeting today at 10:00 7 a.m., going to call the meeting to order at 10:00. 8 AGENDA ITEMS 2 and 3 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: And can we start off with the 10 American Pledge, followed by the Texas Pledge and Mr. Will 11 Martin, would you lead us, please, sir. 12 (Pledges recited) 13 AGENDA ITEM 4 14 CHAIRMAN SMITH: We'll go ahead and do a roll 15 call real quick. Kim Rogers. 16 MS. ROGERS: Here. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Will Martin. 18 MR. MARTIN: Here. 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Tommy Duncan. 20 MR. DUNCAN: Here. 21 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Jason Pohl. 22 MR. POHL: Here. 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Michael Farrell. 24 MR. FARRELL: Here. 25 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Melodye Green. 0005 1 MS. GREENE: Here. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Emile Bourgoyne. 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: Here. 4 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. You're all 5 present and accounted for. 6 AGENDA ITEM 5 7 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. We're going to 8 start with Agenda Item 5, meeting minutes from the 10th of 9 January. Did everybody read the minutes from the last 10 meeting? 11 (Answers in the affirmative) 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. Any -- make a motion 13 to accept the meeting minutes as written down? 14 MS. GREENE: Motion to accept. 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: I second. 16 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All in favor? 17 (Chorus of "ayes") 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Opposed? All right. 19 AGENDA ITEM 6 20 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Number 6, report on the TLC 21 Commissioners meeting. I reported to the Commissioners at 22 the last meeting and it was a good meeting. There was 23 nothing out of the ordinary. We just gave them a rundown of 24 what we did in our last meeting. They accepted that and we 25 went on with our business and nothing spectacular to report. 0006 1 AGENDA ITEM 7 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Number 7, update on BAC 3 recommendations to Texas Lottery Commission. Michael 4 Farrell. 5 MR. FARRELL: Thanks, Trace. This is Michael 6 Farrell. The -- we're currently drafting rules as you asked 7 for before for the -- for the back rent -- my mind just went 8 blank -- the back rent drafted rules it anticipates they're 9 going to be before the Commissioners at the next meeting on 10 the 11th, and then we're going to have a meeting that will -- 11 for public discussion after that. And that's all going to 12 get -- it's penciled in right now, so I'm going to wait until 13 we get the hard dates to make sure everything works. 14 The background checks, paperless report. 15 Background checks, other recommendations, a lot of those 16 other recommendations made at the last meeting are currently 17 before the legislature in a bill. A lot of them are 18 contained in 914. 19 You've got a list of bills you've got in front 20 of you, 882, 914, 967, 1186. Most of those -- 914 contains a 21 whole lot of stuff, a whole lot of things that we've talked 22 about. So we're waiting for that bill -- there's a -- 23 resolution of that bill before we address some of the other 24 issues you want. 25 Paperless reporting; we're still working on 0007 1 that but again, we're trying to hold off a little bit so we 2 don't create too many things and have to recreate them for 3 you. I will let you know that we've got more forms online 4 and we've updated the forms online and we've -- I think 5 that's posted on our website. And we -- one of the other 6 things is that we're working on is working to make the BAC 7 more prominent on the Bingo website, the internet site, so 8 that they can get to you more quickly -- you know, they can 9 click on BAC quicker and our FAQs and the like being on the 10 front page, so that you and your folks and the stakeholders 11 can get there faster instead of having to do two and three 12 clicks. We're working on that, so. 13 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Excellent. 14 MR. FARRELL: Pretty much that's what we're 15 doing right now. And that's all I've got for you. 16 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Thank you, sir. 17 Any public comment on any of those? All right. 18 AGENDA ITEM 8 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Let's go down to number 8, 20 2019 Bingo Rule Review. Mr. Farrell. 21 MR. FARRELL: Yes. Thank you. This is 22 Michael Farrell again. 23 This is the year that we have to do the Bingo 24 review, have to -- we're supposed to review the rules every 25 two years. Just so you know, we're going to be reviewing the 0008 1 rules, being a legislative session, we're going to wait for 2 that to come out. But just letting you know that they are 3 all being reviewed, so we'll probably be -- we'll be 4 promulgating any kind of changes that go along with that, 5 again, just like you do in the new rules, they get -- those 6 go before the Commissioners, we look for comments, and then 7 we write them when we get everything. So it's just to let 8 you know that that's happening this summer. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Are there any rules that you 10 would like us to go ahead and take a look at, just to be -- 11 you know, have it on our radar that we can start helping you 12 with or maybe -- 13 MR. FARRELL: Not -- not right this minute. 14 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- give you some input? 15 MR. FARRELL: I'll -- by the next meeting, if 16 there is anything, I'll let you know. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. All right. 18 AGENDA ITEM 9 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Number 9, nominations of BAC 20 members. We received several applications for not only the 21 charity lessor group, but the general public group as well. 22 At this time I'm going to open up the nominations for the 23 charity lessor group. Anybody like to make a nomination? I 24 think, Mel, you were wanting to -- go ahead? 25 MS. GREENE: Yeah -- 0009 1 MS. ROGERS: The gentleman just -- I don't 2 have his last name. 3 MS. GREENE: Yeah, that's it -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Justin Logan. 5 MS. ROGERS: Logan. That was it. That was my 6 person. I don't -- 7 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Justin Logan. 8 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Would you like to nominate 10 him -- 11 MS. GREENE: Yes, sir. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- for the charity lessor 13 group? 14 MS. GREENE: Yeah, Justin, I'm not sure the -- 15 what was his last name? 16 MS. ROGERS: Yeah, I don't know. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Justin Logan. 18 MS. GREENE: Okay. Justin Logan, yes. 19 MS. ROGERS: He's in Austin, I believe. 20 MS. GREENE: He is. 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'll second it. 22 MS. GREENE: Yeah. 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Emile, you'll second that? 24 Can I have a -- go ahead, Mr. Fenoglio, public comment on 25 this? 0010 1 MR. FENOGLIO: Well, Mr. Logan is here in the 2 room. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yes. I was going to ask. 4 Mr. Logan, if you'd like to come up and tell us a little bit 5 about your charity and what y'all do. If you'll announce 6 your name for the court reporter. 7 MR. LOGAN: Right here? 8 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yes, sir. 9 MR. LOGAN: My name is Justin Logan. I work 10 at the North Austin Foundation in Austin, Texas. And what we 11 do is we help homeless alcoholics and addicts. We're the 12 temporary shelter to get into treatment. We provide up to 30 13 days and then we send them out in the community and help them 14 get everything in order, so when they enter into a treatment 15 program, they become successful. 16 CHAIRMAN SMITH: How long have y'all been 17 doing that? 18 MR. LOGAN: I've been working for this 19 organization six years and I've been involved in Bingo over 20 the last two and a half years, three years. 21 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 22 MS. ROGERS: Where do you -- and what hall do 23 y'all play in? 24 MR. LOGAN: River City Bingo. 25 MS. ROGERS: River City, okay. 0011 1 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Thank you, Mr. 2 Logan. 3 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 4 MR. LOGAN: Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: We have a nomination and a 6 second. Do we have any other nominations? Any other 7 nominations? Any other nominations? All right. Nominations 8 are closed. 9 Nomination and a second, all in favor for Mr. 10 Logan? 11 (Chorus of "ayes") 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Any opposed? Motion carries. 13 You are now sentenced to serve on -- 14 (Laughter) 15 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- the Bingo Advisory 16 Committee, Mr. Logan. It's a pleasure. We'll get you up to 17 speed on things as soon as we can, all right? 18 MR. FARRELL: We'll have lots of paperwork. 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yeah, lots of paperwork. 20 We'll be sure to get your contact information. And I'll ask 21 and get you up to speed. So thank you for being willing to 22 serve on this. We need all the help we can get, I promise. 23 MR. LOGAN: Appreciate it. 24 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. 25 We're going to move on to the general public 0012 1 group for nominations of the Bingo Advisory Committee. I'm 2 going to ask Michael Farrell to kind of give us a definition 3 and a rundown of what as to -- I think there was a lot of 4 concern or question I should say about what is a public 5 member. I know a lot of us think a truly public member would 6 be somebody that does not receive a salary or an income from 7 bingo, but I would like for Michael to kind of talk about 8 that a little bit and the definition of what are the 9 requirements. 10 MR. FARRELL: Again, this is Michael Farrell. 11 Our definition is what's written in the BAC rules. If we 12 meet that requirement, which is the public member, that's -- 13 that's what I've got for you. So if you guys can -- the BAC 14 can make a determination on what -- defining the public. I 15 don't think the Commissioners are going to have anything to 16 say about that. I meant to bring the rules with me. I don't 17 have a set here in front of me. I can go grab them, but, 18 it's really -- it's a member of the public. As -- as 19 written. 20 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. So I think what 21 -- yes, sir, Mr. Martin. 22 MR. MARTIN: Will Martin. I would -- I would 23 like to see someone that is totally not connected to bingo, 24 has never run a bingo hall, doesn't -- doesn't have any 25 shares in a distributorship or manufacturer company, you 0013 1 know, just total public. That's what I want to see. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 3 MS. ROGERS: And I would agree with that. It 4 would be nice to have some -- all of us are involved in the 5 day to day running -- 6 MR. MARTIN: Right. 7 MS. ROGERS: -- of either a bingo hall or a 8 company or something of that nature. It'd be nice to see 9 someone that's a little bit involved. Maybe they play bingo. 10 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. 11 MS. ROGERS: So they're on the other side. 12 When you walk into our halls, we're on one side and the 13 customers are on the other side. We commingle of course 14 because we're meeting them and talking to them. But it'd be 15 nice to have someone from the other side who doesn't see 16 everything, the workings of it, you know, that sees the other 17 side. Maybe they could shed some light on hey, as a player, 18 this is what we'd really like to see, guys. You know, we 19 have people that are trying to make it easier out in the 20 public to go on the website and tell us this is what we want 21 to see, this is what we want to do. Bring one of those 22 people in here and how to find that person I don't know. 23 MR. FARRELL: I was handed the rules, so it 24 says the composition -- commission must appoint members to 25 represent the following interest groups: And the public is 0014 1 listed all by itself. So the inference I would get from that 2 is it's not a conductor, it's -- that are not licensed 3 commercial lessors, people who are conducted as licensed 4 commercial lessor, or a commercial lessor, or a licensed 5 manufacturer or a licensed distributor. So that's -- fits in 6 with what you were saying. But that's using -- using those 7 to be separate categories, that's the way I would interpret 8 that. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Excellent. 10 MS. ROGERS: I just think it would be nice for 11 the view that they can bring to us and let us see. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: The -- most of the 13 applications that we've received -- and I'm sure all of y'all 14 have looked at those -- they are people that fall into other 15 categories. It's -- in my opinion, I think we as the Bingo 16 Advisory Committee should make a recommendation that we 17 reopen the application process to include people that are not 18 in any of those other categories. 19 MR. BOURGOYNE: I agree with that. 20 MS. ROGERS: I agree with that. 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: Trace? 22 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yeah. 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Beyond someone -- a player, is 24 it possible to find someone who's -- benefits from bingo but 25 is not part of the organization that's running it? 0015 1 For example, a kid who receives a pair -- 2 someone who receives a pair of glasses from the Lions Club. 3 Some veteran who receives services. 4 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I think that would definitely 5 fit in that category. 6 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. 7 MR. BOURGOYNE: That would fit in that 8 category, too, wouldn't it? Thank you. 9 MS. ROGERS: Because you want them to have -- 10 I would think we would want them to have at least some 11 knowledge of bingo. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Sure. That it exists. 13 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. And what bingo's there 14 to do. But be on the opposite side of what we are. 15 CHAIRMAN SMITH: A fresh view if you will. 16 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. 17 MR. BOURGOYNE: I concur. 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. All right. So I will 19 make the recommendation that we reopen that. Well, let me 20 rephrase that. I'll make a motion that the BAC makes a 21 recommendation to the staff at Lottery to reopen the 22 application process for general public member. Mr. Fenoglio? 23 MR. FENOGLIO: Mr. Chairman, Stephen Fenoglio, 24 attorney, and I'm on the board of TCA. In following up with 25 Emile's comment, and I don't have an opinion on it, but it 0016 1 occurs to me that there are a number of charities who conduct 2 bingo, who have a conductor license. And it would seem to me 3 to be inappropriate to have the charity who's on the bingo 4 license, the rep -- the representative of the charity. But 5 there could be a board member of that charity who -- and I 6 don't know how that would be perceived as a public member. 7 So for example, let's say it's Joe Smith who's 8 a board member of Family Elder Care. He's listed on the 9 license as everyone knows, you have to have all of your 10 officers and directors, but he is not engaged in bingo in any 11 way. He's a CPA. Maybe not. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Right. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: And so, we've had a problem 14 getting a pure public member. 15 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Right. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: The three folks that I'm aware 17 of that were public members showed up irregularly, if at all, 18 and were never prepared to do anything. So it may be that if 19 that's acceptable to the BAC members and get some feedback 20 from the Commissioners, that may be a better opportunity to 21 get someone who's -- you know, they're aware of what the 22 charitable works of bingo are because they see the 23 distribution money come into the charity, but they're not 24 active in the bingo license itself, they're just listed 25 because they're an officer of that organization and believe 0017 1 in that organization's mission. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Anybody else got any -- 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: Thank you, Stephen. 4 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. 5 MS. ROGERS: They're not involved in the day 6 to day running of bingo. 7 MR. FENOGLIO: Correct. In any way. They're 8 just -- they're a CPA, sits on the board -- 9 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. 10 MR. FENOGLIO: -- of Family Elder Care, and 11 I'm just using them as an example. Most people know what 12 Family Elder Care is and does, providing needed services for 13 the elderly in the greater Austin community, for example. 14 But yeah, they're not -- they don't -- they don't -- if they 15 have a management team, they're not on the management team. 16 Could they be spoon fed information, yes, but 17 they would know a little bit -- at least a little bit about 18 bingo and they have an interest in making sure bingo is 19 successful because that means the money comes to that 20 organization for distribution for good works. Thank you. 21 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 22 MR. MARTIN: I want a pure public member, what 23 I want. 24 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 25 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. And if we -- if we have to 0018 1 keep searching, we'll just keep searching. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. All right. There's a 3 motion on the floor to ask the staff to reopen the 4 application process for a public member. 5 MS. ROGERS: And I will second -- 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: For a public, true public, 7 member. 8 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'll second. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: And a motion to second. All 10 in favor? 11 (Chorus of "ayes") 12 MR. FARRELL: Trace? 13 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yes, sir. 14 MR. FARRELL: This is Michael Farrell. 15 Concerns -- I'm not sure what the motion was, so can you 16 restate what it was -- what you just moved? 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yes. The motion was that the 18 Bingo Advisory Committee is going to ask the staff, which is 19 you, to reopen the application process for public members. 20 MR. FARRELL: And order to reopen the 21 application process, we're going to have to have some 22 criteria. 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 24 MR. FARRELL: What you're looking for. Will 25 said he wanted just a pure public member. Mr. Fenoglio 0019 1 talked about somebody who was involved in the charity, they 2 may be playing bingo, but isn't directly involved with the 3 bingo occasions. So if we can get clarity on that, that 4 makes it easier. 5 MS. ROGERS: I think what Mr. Fenoglio's -- 6 the point that he makes is very valid. If -- if they're 7 involved in bingo as far as the charity, they see the 8 benefits from bingo. If you get a person -- let's just say 9 Joe, you know, who's out here, runs a pizza place, he doesn't 10 know the benefits -- I mean, I'm sure he can be educated, but 11 I don't have time to educate him, you know, as far as how 12 important bingo is and what we need and that kind of stuff. 13 Maybe if they play bingo and they're slightly involved, we're 14 talking about -- my opinion was not having someone that's 15 either every day running -- 16 MR. MARTIN: Myself, I want a bingo player, 17 yes. Someone that is listed with a charity and -- and you 18 and I and everybody in this room knows that if -- if you -- 19 if I have a charity and I was a lessor and they were in my 20 hall, I don't care where they are signed on there as a 21 charity, I've got influence over them. Yeah, I mean, we -- 22 MS. ROGERS: Probably -- 23 MR. MARTIN: Let's -- let's in -- 24 MS. ROGERS: You probably influence your 25 players, too, I guess. 0020 1 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. 2 MS. ROGERS: When you put it that way. 3 MR. MARTIN: Well, no, I mean, if -- you know, 4 if we get a -- what I'm looking -- the ideal person I'm 5 looking at would be someone that's retired, plays bingo and 6 has got time on their hands to get in the car and drive up 7 here every month and a half. I -- I want to know what the 8 bingo players are thinking. I don't want to -- we already 9 know what the charities are thinking, you know, that's -- 10 that -- that's my idea of -- of a public person. 11 MS. ROGERS: I'm not in favor of any age. 12 MR. VANCE: Tyler Vance, attorney with the 13 Lottery Commission. This -- this rule comes from the Act and 14 the act specifies that the Bingo Advisory Committee shall 15 appoint members representing a balance of interests, 16 including representatives of the public, and then charities 17 that operate bingo games. 18 So in our rule, we kind of parsed this out as 19 conductors of bingo. But in the Act, it -- it says 20 representatives of charities that operate bingo. So I think 21 under the Act, what -- what Steve's asking for is kind of its 22 own category that's already represented by anybody that's 23 representing a charity that operates bingo, whether or not 24 they actually are involved in the conduct of bingo itself. 25 So I think the Act really calls for a pure member of the 0021 1 public that is not a representative of charity or a 2 representative of commercial or charity lessor. 3 So the Act creates three categories, it's 4 public -- purely public people and people who represent 5 charities that conduct bingo, and then people that represent 6 lessors that are involved in bingo. So I think our rule 7 might -- might not exactly have -- have the categories lined 8 up as they are in the Act. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I'm okay with that. 10 MS. ROGERS: So it's not on any license. 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Not on a license. 12 MR. VANCE: Well, it's no one who represents a 13 charity, no one who -- who is involved in a charity at any 14 level that conducts bingo. Those folks are already here. 15 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: It's going to be tough. 17 MS. GREENE: Yeah. 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Thank you. 19 MR. FARRELL: It's going to be interesting. 20 CHAIRMAN SMITH: It will be. That's -- be 21 laser focused. Okay? 22 MR. FARRELL: So your second cousin twice 23 removed should apply. 24 (Laughter) 25 CHAIRMAN SMITH: No, third cousin. 0022 1 (Laughter) 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: So Michael has enough 3 direction, so you good with that, Mr. Martin? 4 MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir. 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Excellent. All right. So we 6 can move on to -- or is there any other public comment on 7 this? Okay. 8 AGENDA ITEM 10 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: We'll move on to number 10, 10 the Keller Workgroup meeting summary from the 21st of 11 February, 2019, in San Antonio. I was not able to attend 12 that due to some scheduling conflicts. I know several of our 13 members were in attendance there. 14 Mr. Farrell, if you -- I know you attended 15 that. If you'd like to comment first on -- or do you have 16 any comment? 17 MR. FARRELL: Well -- this is Michael Farrell. 18 I have no general comment, other than I appreciate everybody 19 welcoming there, talking to me there, and providing me 20 continuing education on bingo. 21 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. 22 MR. DUNCAN: I didn't see any resolution done 23 as we all left and left the folks; the San Antonio charities, 24 lessors and such, to have their own meeting afterwards. We 25 left when Mr. Farrell did. There was no resolution. 0023 1 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. Is there anyone from 2 the general public or anybody else on the BAC that would like 3 to comment on this? 4 MS. ROGERS: I was one of the ones present and 5 one of the ones that stayed after everybody left. And yes, 6 Michael, thank you so much for coming and helping us. This 7 work group has a good bases, it just -- unfortunately, in San 8 Antonio and Bexar County, we have an issue, and I don't know 9 if the rest of the state of Texas has it. Of course, we feel 10 like we're the only ones that have this problem. 11 The value, the -- the amount of playing bingo 12 in San Antonio has just plummeted. I mean, we have -- we 13 just recently had a hall open up where you can now go play 14 bingo for a penny. And I don't know where you go from there. 15 I don't understand and I look at more at the books, the 16 logic, the business side of it. If I'm paying Video King or 17 whoever it is you get your computers from, a certain amount 18 and I only charge a person a penny to play bingo, I don't 19 know how you make payments. But -- so you get -- and that's 20 kind of the basis of this group. It was started to maybe 21 implement something to where they couldn't do this. 22 You know, the Bingo Enabling Act says you 23 can't do bingo for free, so a penny is the first price you 24 can go. And I don't know. I don't know where we go from 25 there. I guess time will tell. 0024 1 MS. GREENE: What was suggested? 2 MS. ROGERS: What -- it was putting out a 3 minimum of -- a floor price of $8 on computers that have -- 4 you know, help me here, Tommy. 5 MR. DUNCAN: Well, pretty much everything in 6 the work group was pretty much shot down. There was 7 manufacturers there. 8 MS. ROGERS: Right. 9 MR. DUNCAN: They explained that if you put a 10 minimum price and you're going to pull half your inventory 11 out, well, they're going to come back at you to raise the 12 price. I mean, you know, it's -- now they've got half the 13 inventory here, but you know, so there really was no -- they 14 did a price per card thing. I mean, there were several 15 different options done, but that is why we let the group meet 16 after to maybe -- 17 MS. ROGERS: Right. Once they -- 18 MR. DUNCAN: -- hash it out. 19 MS. ROGERS: -- left -- the three largest 20 commercial lessors of San Antonio were still there. I think 21 there's 27 halls in San Antonio and I think 23 were 22 represented. It was a -- kind of let's do -- let's all get 23 on the same page, let's all -- let's do the same thing, and 24 then hopefully it will just take over. 25 No, because the deal -- I think the option on 0025 1 the table was 22 cards for $6 per session, no one was to go 2 under that. And if you upped your cards, you could charge 3 more. But one did not agree to do that, so. 4 CHAIRMAN SMITH: So there's no formal 5 recommendation by the group; is that correct? 6 MR. DUNCAN: No formal recommendation at this 7 time. 8 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. So we can -- I think 9 we can scratch this off our agenda for now unless they -- 10 MR. DUNCAN: For now. Unless he -- unless Mr. 11 Keller wants to come back down. Yes, sir. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. So we'll -- we'll 13 take that -- 14 MR. DUNCAN: I looked around. I thought he'd 15 be here. 16 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Any public 17 comment on that? Mel? 18 MS. GREENE: Yeah, no, my comment is I'm just 19 no for price fixing. Once -- once we -- 20 MS. ROGERS: Right. 21 MS. GREENE: -- you know, give the Lottery 22 Commission -- 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Agreed. 24 MS. GREENE: -- you know, ability to tell us 25 what we can charge now, I think that's a real slippery slope. 0026 1 MS. ROGERS: Very slippery slope. 2 MS. KIPLIN: Good morning. I considered 3 whether I wanted to put public comment on. My name's 4 Kimberly Kiplin, I'm an attorney here in Austin. 5 I'm here today on behalf of the Department of 6 Texas Veterans of Foreign War. I submitted in January a 7 letter in opposition to what I -- what we understood at that 8 time were the initiatives regarding setting prices. 9 VFW is opposed to any type of price setting. 10 The reasons were one, I -- at this point, I don't believe the 11 agency would have the expertise to engage in market studies. 12 Rate setting can be very complicated. We can look at other 13 governmental agencies that set rates and it's -- it's a 14 tedious, laborious, exercise. 15 For the VFW, for them themselves, they have 16 posts all across the state. And what occurs in -- what price 17 would be competitive in one jurisdiction is not going to be 18 competitive in another jurisdiction. To set prices across 19 the state I think is impractical and it's unrealistic. 20 Frankly, there are some cities where I think just hitting a 21 price within that city also, for example, Houston. You know, 22 the better, urban, metropolitan areas. 23 So I debated about commenting. I understand 24 that we're probably not going to be carrying this item 25 forward, but I wanted to go -- go ahead and go on record on 0027 1 behalf of the VFW being opposed to any form of price setting 2 whatsoever. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 4 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Emile? 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: Just one other comment. We 7 beat this around for a while now and it's pretty clear that 8 this group is asking the BAC to -- and the Texas Lottery 9 Commission to solve a problem that the industry itself 10 created. And to me it's a problem that the industry itself 11 has to resolve. And to put it best, I think Danny Moore said 12 it best, this genie is out of the bottle and we can't get it 13 back in. 14 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I think that it sounds like 15 to me that the operators in that area are getting together 16 and trying to work something out on their own, so I think 17 that's where we should leave that. 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: Thank you. 19 AGENDA ITEM 11 20 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. So let's go to 21 number 11, discussion and possible action on pull-tab rules. 22 Emile, it's all you, sir. 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, one more time I'm going 24 to try this. This is the proposed rule change for 402.300, 25 Section E, sales and redemption to -- it doesn't -- what 0028 1 we're requesting is not to require you to change the way 2 you're reporting your pull-tabs, but to allow you to change 3 if you want to on your instant tickets to only report the 4 deal officially to the state once it's removed -- withdrawn 5 from play. 6 There's a bill filed for jar tickets, we 7 discussed this, I've seen Paramount Games in the room. We 8 wall want to help the veterans and legions sell more instant 9 tickets. But even passing that bill's not going to solve the 10 problem because you've still got to count the tickets after 11 every day, after every session, and even those tickets are a 12 little harder to count than regular pull-tabs. 13 Most other jurisdictions only allow the deal 14 to be reported -- only require the deal be reported when it's 15 removed from play, when it's final. Now, they can keep their 16 own daily session reports, they can deposit the money, have 17 their daily session reports, not filed with the state, but in 18 -- on -- in their possession to deal with the auditors. You 19 bookkeepers in Texas will have to help me out with that, but 20 we're going to request a vote on this bill -- on this 21 proposed rule change because we've been dragging it on for 22 three meetings now and I'd just like to move on. 23 So I would ask for your favorable 24 consideration. 25 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Michael, do you want to -- 0029 1 care to weigh in on that at all? 2 MR. FARRELL: It's up to you. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. Kim? 4 MS. ROGERS: What is -- what is the issue with 5 not changing? What -- why not change it? If it assists the 6 charities to sell more, to -- 7 MR. BOURGOYNE: The issue is -- as I've been 8 told by a couple of people is they're a little concerned that 9 some organizations could go on from day to day, session to 10 session, will be handling a significant amount of cash and 11 may be hesitant to deposit -- 12 MS. ROGERS: Carry it over, right. 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: Carry it over. And -- and 14 wait until the deal is pulled from play to deposit. I don't 15 know that that's necessarily required. I think you can 16 deposit the money anytime you wanted to deposit the money, 17 you just have to keep a daily session report for the auditors 18 to view as to where that money came from. 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I'm going to weigh in. I 20 don't think that's entirely correct. I think that if you 21 gather money in a particular session, you're required to 22 deposit that money at the end of the session or with a -- 23 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 24 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- a timeframe; is that 25 right, Michael? 0030 1 MS. ROGERS: That -- that is actually a rule 2 that I had read to me because of doing door prizes I had a 3 question, and it's in the rules somewhere. It states that 4 all funds brought in from a session must be deposited. Now, 5 maybe legal can check that for me, but -- 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: But do you have to have a 7 corresponding daily report filed with the state to cover 8 that? 9 MS. ROGERS: No. You just have to -- 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's what this rule -- this 11 -- the only thing this rule -- proposed rule change is 12 addressing is that you not have to file daily. And the 13 reason we don't think you -- we need to file daily is because 14 if you had a -- a larger instant game that went say, seven 15 sessions before you sold it out or removed it from play, 16 you've had to file reports on that same serial number seven 17 times with the state giving you seven times more chance to 18 make a mistake to pull you in for an audit. If you only had 19 to do it once, you had a better chance of getting it right 20 when the deal was completed. 21 MS. ROGERS: So break it down in a very simple 22 way. You have a box of pull-tabs, these are pull-tabs, not 23 event tabs. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Pull-tab bingo. 25 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 0031 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: Most events are sold out in 2 one session. 3 MS. GREENE: That's instant tabs. 4 MS. ROGERS: That's what -- 5 MR. BOURGOYNE: Oh, 4,000. 6 MS. ROGERS: Let's just use a thousand. It's 7 a thousand tickets. And the first day I sold 200, okay? 8 That $200 I'm going to put into the bank account according to 9 that -- against that session, right? 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: Correct. 11 MS. ROGERS: Yes? 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: Correct. 13 MS. ROGERS: Okay. And then the next day I 14 sell 200 and that's how it continues on. 15 MR. DUNCAN: Well, how many winners did you 16 have? You have to report the winners. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I have a question. How do 18 you -- if you're not reporting that deal on your paperwork at 19 the end of every session, but yet you've deposited that 20 money, you're going to have a discrepancy between your 21 deposits and your paperwork for that -- and that's going to 22 be a lot of short -- 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: You're going to have a daily 24 session report for that deal, you're just not going to file 25 it with the state. You'll have it in your possession. 0032 1 MS. ROGERS: So what happens on day two if I 2 sold 200 tickets and I have a $500 instant come in? Now I'm 3 $300 short on my other one if I don't keep the money. 4 MS. GREENE: That money is -- 5 MS. ROGERS: Am I right? 6 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I think the way it works is 7 you really don't file anything with the state on any ticket. 8 You file your -- you do your daily cash reports everyday. 9 When they come for an audit, they ask for a daily cash 10 report. 11 Now, they may ask for your schedule of prizes 12 for that particular session, for that particular DCR, but -- 13 and you've got to put the winner -- I mean, you're going to 14 have to put -- there's already a line item for the halls that 15 do instants, correct? On your DCR? 16 MR. POHL: Yes, sir. Yes. 17 MR. DUNCAN: There's already a line item for 18 instants. So if she -- if I sold 200 like she said and I 19 paid out 100, well, I'm really depositing -- you know, paying 20 out 95, I'm really depositing 105. I have to have that on my 21 DCR, because if I get audited, they're going to say like he 22 said, well, if you don't have it on there, where'd this -- 23 where'd this $105 come from. 24 MS. ROGERS: Well, what if you paid out 500? 25 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah, now you're short. 0033 1 MS. GREENE: You have to report all that. 2 MR. DUNCAN: You know, you don't have the 3 deposit. 4 MS. GREENE: You know, you don't have the 5 pull-tab to pay for it. 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I have a question. In this 7 particular rule change, is this -- I'm starting to get the 8 feeling that this is not geared towards the paper -- or the 9 handheld -- hand sold event tickets or hand sold pull-tabs. 10 Is it -- would this then be in like a dispenser? That's -- 11 is that -- 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: It would certainly open the 13 door for more dispensers. Absolutely. 14 MR. DUNCAN: And these new dispensers actually 15 do the reporting for you if you put the numbers in right. 16 MR. POHL: Yep. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: So -- 18 MS. ROGERS: Does the dispenser keep the cash? 19 You know, you only empty it out -- 20 MR. POHL: We empty it out every -- 21 MS. ROGERS: At a certain time? 22 MR. DUNCAN: They empty it out everyday. 23 Well, you have to put it in the bank. I mean, you know, I 24 mean, the -- that -- the lottery -- the lottery is going to 25 have to let you not deposit until the deal is -- basically, 0034 1 what he's asking for is no deposit until it's over, we're -- 2 you know. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Hold on. Emile, so let me 4 ask you a question. Could this style of reporting that 5 you're wanting to recommend to staff for change, could this 6 style of reporting be worded to just effect dispenser sales? 7 MR. BOURGOYNE: That would be a staff decision 8 I would think. I -- and -- and I have reached out to them. 9 That's -- 10 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Would that solve your 11 problem; is that -- I guess that's what I'm asking, so. 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'm -- 13 MS. ROGERS: Because technically, you're not 14 collecting the money, that dispenser is. So I -- 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: The problem I'm trying to 16 solve is to make it more pliable, more viable, for 17 organizations to sell instant tickets and not have to report 18 them every time, every day, every session, until the game is 19 removed, because -- because they have to, they're not buying 20 them. 21 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yeah. 22 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's why we're not selling a 23 lot of instant pull-tab bingo tickets in Texas. That's why 24 we're all selling event tickets. Because of the reporting 25 requirements. 0035 1 MR. FENOGLIO: Okay. Stephen Fenoglio again. 2 So we've got I think two issues. Number one, and some people 3 in the back, of the room probably don't want to be named, 4 pointed out on Emile's proposal that if it goes from one 5 quarter to the next, that may be a problem. If you -- I 6 mean, you've now screwed up your quarter. So if you're going 7 to make this change, it has to only apply in the same 8 quarter. Otherwise, the quarterly reports will be forever 9 screwed up. 10 The second issue is the before we had event 11 tickets this is -- the way it was done is you recorded it, 12 deposited it, et cetera. I can see a -- I can see Emile's 13 point on whether the charity should make the deposit. I 14 don't think they have a choice under current law. They have 15 to make that deposit within the second business day and you 16 can carry over the tabs. I hadn't thought about if it's a 17 dispenser, if the money is still in the dispenser. That may 18 be an exception that's necessary. 19 But before we had event tickets, this -- to 20 the extent that it was a problem, it was a problem they 21 didn't report everything because either there was theft going 22 on and the -- this is long before Michael, but I had my eyes 23 opened wide out in San Angelo with a charity hall that got 24 fleeced by the husband and wife team out there to the tune of 25 several hundred thousand dollars of shenanigans. And this 0036 1 was one of them. Charities didn't know what was going on, 2 they trusted the management and the management created the 3 abuse. 4 The other issue we had come up in the past is 5 when people, and I think this is Emile's point of they're 6 transposing some numbers because they have to continue to 7 make the ride and that happens. And the division staff in 8 the past had been forgiving if it onl -- happens only 9 occasionally, but I have known some audits where they had to 10 pay some money because someone -- because it's a long 11 sequence, the serial number, and eventually it -- someone's 12 going to transpose a number. So I think that's part of your 13 concern, Emile, is -- 14 MR. BOURGOYNE: It is. 15 MR. FENOGLIO: -- you know, this is a -- 16 people are human, and they're not going to always put the 17 right number in the right number in the right sequence. 18 So to the extent that that's an issue and we 19 want to solve it, it seems like Emile's suggestion is well 20 taken. As long as you don't get outside of a quarter, 21 because if you get outside the quarter, then -- then the 22 auditors are going to have huge problems. 23 I hope I've given some -- shed some light. 24 We do have some bookkeepers here who that's 25 all they do, and I'm looking at Sharon Ives (ph) and she's 0037 1 trying to hide. That, you know, it -- I -- I see the problem 2 and it's been a problem that Emile's trying to solve. And 3 certainly, if we're trying to move to a dispenser, then that 4 could be a real problem. And I hope at some point we could 5 actually have dispensers that would actually make bingo fun. 6 Lottery now has dispensers. In the past, this 7 committee has asked the Commissioners let's have the same 8 rule for our bingo dispensers that you have for your lottery 9 ticket dispensers. We're not there yet. 10 MS. ROGERS: Well, I was just going to ask 11 that. Okay. So I own Jolly Tea Icehouse (ph) and I have a 12 dispenser in there. What does the lottery do? Does anybody 13 know? Does all the money stay in there? Because I know -- I 14 noticed it can break down the inventory of their scratch offs 15 and everything like that. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: We actually showed video to the 17 Commissioners, Steve Bresnen and I did, maybe three years 18 ago, about the lottery dispensing machine. And it dispensed 19 maybe 15 different tickets and it had a bill acceptor so you 20 could put the money in. A little different because lottery - 21 - the retailer, once they open that deal, they pay for it to 22 the state. And that's not how bingo works and we're not 23 suggesting that. 24 But as far as the -- the money stays in that 25 machine until an authorized representative comes in and takes 0038 1 the money out of the machine. 2 MS. ROGERS: From the Icehouse or -- 3 MR. FENOGLIO: It -- the -- 4 MS. ROGERS: -- or from the lottery? 5 MR. FENOGLIO: -- the lottery, from the 6 lottery. 7 MS. ROGERS: Oh, no, I -- okay. 8 CHAIRMAN SMITH: No. 9 MS. GREENE: I was -- 10 MR. FENOGLIO: Well, I -- that's what I mean, 11 an authorized person. It -- you know, the retailer -- if -- 12 he's not going to let just anyone come in and open the 13 machine. And in the icehouse example, then you typically 14 have a coin op person who comes by who's also authorized. 15 What I wanted to suggest is it's just not 16 anyone who can get access to that lottery dispenser. And I 17 know we have seen dispenser machines for bingo. At one 18 point, when Phil Sanderson was the distributor, we did a 19 survey and I think there were seven machines in the state. 20 And one of the problems that I heard was we have to take all 21 the money out and have to do the inventory at the end of the 22 session and that's too much work -- 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Exactly. 24 MR. FENOGLIO: -- so we never have machines. 25 So I -- maybe that's Emile's goal is to free up some of the 0039 1 paperwork so that a manufacturer would be tempted to say 2 okay, now I can -- I see where it -- that it won't be this 3 regulatory hurdle of you got to pull out the money and you've 4 got to file -- fill out the paperwork. Maybe that's where 5 you're headed. 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Well, it would -- but it 7 would still run into the issue on the quarterlies. 8 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah, that would have to -- 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yeah, you've got to have the 10 deals close. 11 MR. FENOGLIO: -- have the deals closed. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: And, you know, I really think 13 that you're headed in the right direction, I see where you're 14 going with this now a little more. I'm not sure how we get 15 there. 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: I don't have the Texas 17 reporting skills that your reporters -- people who do these 18 reports all the time do. I'd certainly like to reach out to 19 someone who does and can -- can work with me to figure out a 20 way to make this work within the quarters. 21 MR. POHL: I think that'd be a great idea. 22 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I think we can do that. I'd 23 be willing to help you, me, Tom, I'm sure there's several 24 other people that we could reach out to for information and 25 try to figure this out. But I see where you're going with it 0040 1 and more of a why you're going and at this point I think 2 you're on the right track. 3 MS. ROGERS: My only instance that I've ever 4 had with this way back when we sold pull-tabs, but we were a 5 unit and I can remember having a spot check and they came in 6 during the second session and we opened that box in the first 7 session, and they were a little bit -- they were a little bit 8 upset with us that we didn't close it out. We were like 9 we're a unit, our books are together, you know, our -- it's 10 one bank account. 11 So I remember going back and forth but we quit 12 selling pull-tabs -- 13 MR. FENOGLIO: And that's the point. 14 MR. POHL: Yeah. 15 MR. FENOGLIO: And we have fixed that issue 16 that you had in the statute. And then the other thing to do 17 if we're going to try to move, we need collectively to get 18 some bookkeepers like Sharon Ives, before we come back to the 19 Commission, I would hope that Michael would allow us to talk 20 to their auditors about this. 21 You know, as I say, I sit on my side of the 22 table with my client, Michael sits on his side of the table 23 with his staff, I try to see their problems, but I don't 24 always see their problems. So before we would come back, I 25 would hope that we could have either agreement with the staff 0041 1 or at least we would identify the issues that well, from our 2 -- sitting on our side of the table, this is the solution; we 3 understand that on your side of the table there's still a 4 problem. 5 MR. FARRELL: Well, I think staff are very 6 willing to work with everybody to address the issues. 7 MR. FENOGLIO: Good. 8 MS. GREENE: Does this give you a receipt? 9 Like is there like a small point of sale built into the tab, 10 you know, dispenser itself so you know what to hold? 11 MR. POHL: Mine does. It has a printer that 12 prints receipts. 13 MS. GREENE: It does? 14 MR. BOURGOYNE: The machine does. 15 MR. POHL: It tells you what the count is. 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: Complete accounting. 17 MS. GREENE: It does a complete accounting, 18 because it -- you don't want to have to keep track like you 19 said about what you're putting in the bank and you've ran the 20 deposit either -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: You staple that receipt 22 to it. 23 MR. POHL: That's what we do. 24 MS. GREENE: And then what happens if you -- 25 the first person is a $1000 winner or $500 winner? 0042 1 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Emile, if I may, you have a 2 work group already on this with Tommy's on it, I'm -- I 3 volunteered to help, and Tyler Vance also offered his help. 4 MR. VANCE: Did I hear my name? 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: At that very first meeting 6 around -- I'm sure there's -- are other people that would be 7 willing to help on that. If you want to -- I got a lot more 8 direction from you this time. I see where you're trying to 9 go with this. I think we need to help you with this and get 10 this done. 11 MR. BOURGOYNE: Thank you. I appreciate it. 12 MS. ROGERS: Do you have a machine, Jason? 13 MR. POHL: Yes, ma'am. 14 MS. ROGERS: So I -- I'm -- I would grab him, 15 too, because he has one. 16 MR. POHL: Uh-huh (affirmative). 17 MS. ROGERS: He works with it. 18 MR. POHL: Yeah. 19 MS. ROGERS: Maybe. 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: We make machines. 21 MS. ROGERS: Well, I know, but -- okay. 22 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. 23 MR. DUNCAN: Emile, do you think they'll ship 24 one down here to let these -- these folks look at it? 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'm sure they would. 0043 1 MR. POHL: Well, I -- it -- 2 MR. DUNCAN: I thought so, too, that's what I 3 just told -- 4 MR. POHL: We actually would send it -- 5 MR. DUNCAN: -- Mr. Fenoglio. 6 MR. POHL: -- where she could see beginning 7 balance, it prints the -- 8 MS. ROGERS: Emile, do you know how -- 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: I don't know what machine he's 10 got. 11 MR. DUNCAN: He's got the AG. 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: AG, the American -- 13 CHAIRMAN SMITH: If y'all would please -- 14 please don't talk over one another. We do have a court 15 reporter that's struggling over here. We've got seven people 16 talking at once. So if y'all would, please, you know, hold 17 the cross talk. 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: Tommy, I work for AG, too. 19 MR. DUNCAN: I know, that's why -- 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yeah. 21 MR. DUNCAN: -- you could get the machine 22 here. 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yeah. Yeah. 24 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. So get with your work 25 group, call me. I'm available except from like 8:00 a.m. to 0044 1 like 11:00 a.m., because that's the only time I get to sleep. 2 But let's -- let's get your work group together and let's get 3 you some help. And I'm sure Mr. Fenoglio would add his 4 expertise and I'm sure there's some bookkeepers out there who 5 would love -- 6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Sharon Ives. 7 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- to -- love to do that as 8 well. If you need their contact info, get with me, I'll make 9 sure you get it. 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: Just send me the list. 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Yes, sir. Okay. 12 Any other public comment on this item? All right. 13 AGENDA ITEM 12 14 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. Item number 12, 15 Conservative Texans for Charitable Bingo - Rally at the 16 Capitol. Mr. Martin? 17 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. Today at 12:30, we'll be 18 meeting on the south steps of the Capitol. I'll try to get 19 everybody lined up as soon as we get everything -- everyone 20 in place, get the podiums in place, we'll start the rally. 21 Depends on how long-winded our speakers are. We should be 22 through somewhere between 1:30 and 2:00. And then we'll 23 dispense all the people there. 24 I've got packets lined up to send them to 25 different senator and house members, their offices. And 0045 1 everyone's welcome. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Alrighty. 3 AGENDA ITEM 13 4 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Let's get down to item number 5 13, Texas Charity Advocates, Charity Day at the Capitol 6 invite. Mr. Stuart was unable to attend for this. Mr. 7 Fenoglio, would you like to address this, sir? 8 MR. FENOGLIO: I can. Texas Charity Advocates 9 has had a Capitol Day for I think the last five sessions, 10 maybe six. And I did not write down the date and I'm trying 11 to -- April 9th, thank you. And so we would gather at the 12 Capitol Auditorium, Room E.10 -- E.004, at 8:30 a.m. And a 13 9:00 a.m. program kicks off, Trace Smith as most of you know 14 is chair of the Texas Charity Advocates. Michael has 15 graciously agreed to show up and make some comments. 16 We're going to also discuss the TCA marketing 17 plan that I know some of y'all have already heard about that 18 TCA spent a substantial amount of money developing marketing 19 tools and a new website. And we also have completed and 20 distributed to the Commissioners and others in the industry 21 economic impact study and we'll discuss about that. The goal 22 on that one was to show the legislature in particular the 23 economic impact that charity bingo has in the state's 24 economy. And then Mr. Bresnen will be there to discuss 25 legislation. 0046 1 We plan to have a photo op with the Governor 2 at around 11:00 that morning along with some of the 3 legislators who have helped Charitable Bingo, including, I 4 think most of all you know Ms. T as she's referred to as, Ms. 5 Thompson, will be there. She's the one who got the 6 legislation passed to eliminate the licensings which is a $4- 7 million positive hit to the charities every -- each and every 8 year. And then also the elimination of the $5 and less no 9 prize fee. 10 She's also -- has another bill as most of you 11 know, House Bill 914, that was heard yester -- Tuesday in 12 committee. And we have a committee substitute, House Bill 9- 13 1-4, and we'll talk about some of the legislation. 14 Be happy to answer any questions. And for the 15 record, my name is Stephen Fenoglio. Sorry if I didn't do 16 that, Mr. Court Reporter. 17 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Thank you, sir. All right. 18 AGENDA ITEM 14 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: We'll go on to number 14, any 20 old business. Anybody have anything they want to talk about 21 on anything that we've done in the past, now is the time. 22 MS. GREENE: What do we need to do on the -- 23 excuse me -- temporaries on demand we talked about at the 24 first meeting? 25 MR. FARRELL: This is Michael Farrell, I 0047 1 haven't done much on that with two bills that are in right 2 now. We'll continue to look at it. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Any public comment on old 4 business? 5 AGENDA ITEM 15 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Number 15, any 7 new business? Emile, I think you've got a couple of things, 8 Tommy -- 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: I do. I just have some 10 questions and a little concerns for Michael. Recently a 11 couple of manufacturers have notified me that they've had a 12 couple of games that were denied for -- for lack of a better 13 term ethnicity sensitivity. And I -- I guess as the 14 manufacturers, we're just kind of looking for a little bit 15 more guidance. 16 We have the rule that says derogatory images 17 are -- or no derogatory images or texts. And you know, 18 subjectivity is one thing, but I don't see anything 19 derogatory about that to me. I think -- I think Good Time 20 Games had a couple other games that were at issue. 21 There are things that offend all of us 22 outstanding in this -- in this country and these politics. 23 MR. MARTIN: Looks like my cousin. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Fifty percent of the people 25 disagree with the other fifty percent of the people. 0048 1 (Laughter) 2 MR. BOURGOYNE: But I guess instead of just a 3 flat out denial, we'd like a little phone call, a heads up. 4 We've got a lot of time and energy invested in this art by 5 the time we submit it to you. I guess I'm asking maybe a 6 phone call or a -- this is -- this is the problem, could you 7 tweak this maybe, instead of just a flat out denial or give 8 us some better guidelines or something. 9 MR. FARRELL: I'm -- this is Michael Farrell. 10 My understanding is, is that on -- on these, we do go back to 11 the manufacturer and tell them what -- there's a piece on it 12 that is offending. We don't -- that's not a -- a unilateral 13 decision on my part. We usually run it around the office to 14 make sure and talk to the other people and say this is -- is 15 good or bad, is there something that I'm missing here or is 16 it -- am I being overly sensitive if I'm looking at those 17 pieces. 18 So usually if we -- if we're going to deny 19 artwork, we're going to say artwork isn't any good, we go 20 back to the manufacturer. Generally, we go back to the 21 manufacturer and say this is what we find offensive with -- 22 with the artwork. I -- I -- 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Here's the issue. Most of the 24 artwork that we generate for Texas comes directly from Texas. 25 It comes from our field agents being in the field with the 0049 1 distributor sales rep being in the halls with bingo players, 2 and those ideas come from Texans. They don't -- we're not 3 dreaming this up in Omaha and stuff. If -- that's where we 4 get our information to make these tickets. And I -- I'm just 5 trying to figure out the offensive process. I'm just trying 6 to -- 7 MS. ROGERS: I have a question, Emile. What 8 were you told -- what's offensive about this? 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: Nothing to me. 10 MS. ROGERS: No, no, no. I -- I understand 11 it's not offensive to you, and this is not offense to me. 12 But the lottery has a -- they didn't just come back and say 13 no. Did they come back and say no, because? 14 MR. BOURGOYNE: The character. 15 MS. ROGERS: Because it's a -- this character 16 is offensive why? 17 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's my point. 18 MS. ROGERS: Well, I -- I think that they -- I 19 think that the -- I think you deserve an answer as to why 20 it's offensive, because this does not offend me. 21 I mean, okay. 22 MR. BOURGOYNE: It -- 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: And let me ask -- and 24 Michael, I don't know much about this, so I'm going to ask 25 you three questions. 0050 1 MR. FARRELL: Sure. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Is there a -- a guideline 3 that you use that -- 4 MR. FARRELL: Yes. There's a general 5 guideline we use on this, of course. In particular, things 6 that use -- and I talked to manufacturers about it, at least 7 one manufacturer personally about it, is if it's got alcohol 8 involved, it's got weapons involved, if it's got sex -- 9 scantily clad people involved, we generally -- that's 10 generally a non-starter to begin with; we tell them that. 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Right. 12 MR. FARRELL: If -- if there's terminology on 13 -- on the tickets that can -- that can be referred or 14 inferred to be something other than what I think you want it 15 to say or could be derogatory to some people, then we take a 16 look at that. I can specifically talk about some of those, 17 the Buckshot Billy or I think that's the one you showed me. 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yes, sir. 19 MR. FARRELL: Some people found it offensive 20 that we were making fun of -- for want of a better phrase -- 21 country folk. Right? Is a couple others in there that if 22 you look at some of them, it -- there's offensive to either a 23 minority or we're making fun of Texicans or whatever. So we 24 do run it around and try to be very -- and we try to use the 25 same -- we try to be very consistent, but considerate. We 0051 1 also try to use the same guidelines that the lottery uses in 2 their lottery tickets so that we're -- we're not going 3 through and making -- and having very different kind of 4 graphics on tickets. 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: So let me ask you, this is -- 6 like I say, this is probably green questions, I don't -- I'm 7 not familiar with that side of things. If a -- I know a lot 8 of halls typically in the past they would say hey, we want 9 this pay signal and we want this design print. 10 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: If they're specifically 12 asking for a design that they think that their customers will 13 relate to that they're only going to sell to that hall and 14 not say, sell statewide, does that play into -- 15 MR. FARRELL: Not really, because once it -- 16 once it's approved, once the artwork's approved, they can 17 play it anywhere, even -- 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 19 MR. FARRELL: -- even if it's just a hall 20 amount. You -- you might have -- for want of -- if we -- 21 we've disapproved artwork that's got bullet holes and targets 22 on some of its other -- in today's climate where ten years 23 ago certainly may have said that's just fine and dandy, this 24 -- 25 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Y'all -- do y'all like the 0052 1 old pull-tabs that have been in production and have been in 2 okayed? 3 MR. FARRELL: I've not pulled any pull-tabs 4 that have been previously approved, even though some of them 5 have some very not so great language on them. 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Some of them don't follow the 7 guidelines for today. 8 MR. FARRELL: They are. 9 MR. DUNCAN: I'd like to say -- this is Tommy 10 Duncan. On a couple of those pieces of art like the Texican, 11 if you go into Texas history, that's what we were called 12 here. It's really -- the picture's not offensive, but the 13 holler for the dollar, that lady is an actual bingo player 14 that passed away. She played at that bingo hall forever. 15 They were doing it as a tribute tab. That is the actual lady 16 on the ticket. But it seems like some of the rules have 17 changed. 18 Now, I know you got guidelines, but if we're 19 gonna -- you've got Veronica that approves -- did I 20 understand you right now you're passing it around the office 21 to get everybody's opinion? Because like Emile said, 50 22 percent doesn't like it, 50 percent does, you know. 23 MR. FARRELL: Well, the ultimate decision's my 24 decision. 25 MR. DUNCAN: Right. 0053 1 MR. FARRELL: Right? And so when -- when I've 2 got anything to say, if there's something that somebody says 3 that is derogatory towards some -- some ethnicity, some 4 religion, some people, then I take a -- I take a good look at 5 it and see why they're saying that. And so -- and so if it - 6 - if it -- if there's a reasonable explanation of what's 7 going on, then yes, it gets approved, and we try to make a 8 change. And we've gone back to the manufacturers and said if 9 you change the artwork this way, or you change this word this 10 way, then it's fine. 11 It's just there's certain things that are just 12 not -- now I understand what you're telling me about this 13 being a person in that, but I -- I'm telling you that it -- 14 right now -- I can re-look at it, but what -- what we've got 15 is, is that there is -- that we did -- we did talk to folks 16 in the office, because I want to make sure that it wasn't 17 offensive to somebody that I don't -- that I may not know 18 about, and they found some of that being offensive. 19 MS. ROGERS: So I would like to say something 20 please. And I am not offending or looking to offend anyone 21 in this room or anywhere. If we allow this coke can offends 22 will, these glasses offend Deb, and I know we're speaking 23 about people, I'm talking about inanimate objects, if we 24 allow being a -- to go down the road or this to go down the 25 road, that because Suzy doesn't like the overalls that the 0054 1 gentleman in the ticket's wearing, because that offends her 2 because her neighbor wore those overalls and whatever reason 3 it is that she has that it offends her, that's not -- no, 4 because they don't offend me, so my rights and my offending 5 or not offending should be just as important as hers that 6 sits next to me. 7 So what you're basically saying is now, these 8 makers of tabs are going to have to do nothing but inanimate 9 objects. We've had camel toe, we've had blue balls, we've 10 had tickets that the names of them, holy cow. 11 MR. FARRELL: We've had peckerheads. 12 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. 13 MR. POHL: Yes. 14 MS. ROGERS: But it had an inanimate object on 15 it. I don't like and I apologize that I'm a little bit 16 worked up. I get very upset with society when we make that 17 ticket, with that lady on it, should not offend anyone. Why? 18 Because she's a lady of color? That offends someone? It 19 shouldn't. 20 If she made the honor to be on the ticket 21 that's going to be sold thousands to make charity money. 22 Maybe it's the name. Maybe it's because it's a lady of color 23 and it says holler. Change it to the lady's name. You know 24 what I mean? Maybe do something like that. But you're going 25 to knock down a ticket because it's a -- it's a hillbilly 0055 1 guy? 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I think -- I think what 3 Michael's trying to say is he's willing to look at each -- 4 MS. ROGERS: Right. I know he is. 5 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- ticket and make a 6 determination and ask for change and explain why; is that 7 correct? 8 MR. FARRELL: Usually -- 9 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. 10 MR. FARRELL: -- we explain why. For 11 instance, we -- we had a pull-tab that came in that we asked 12 them to change a little bit of the art on it and that was 13 fine, removing a -- 14 MR. DUNCAN: A halo and a Bible? 15 MR. FARRELL: Yeah, the halo. 16 MR. DUNCAN: The halo and a Bible, it was 17 called holy duck. 18 MS. ROGERS: Now the -- now the Bible offended 19 someone. 20 MS. GREENE: Yeah. 21 MR. FARRELL: Well, no. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I'd just like to say one 23 thing before we get off track here. 24 MR. FARRELL: Let's go this way. Well, let's 25 go this way. Remember, it's one of the things that I have to 0056 1 worry about is not just it offends nobody in San Antonio, but 2 it's -- 3 MS. ROGERS: Right. 4 MR. FARRELL: -- is it offensive to somebody 5 in Houston, is it offensive to somebody in El Paso, is it 6 offensive to somebody in Lubbock. It's not just inanimate 7 objects. That's not -- that's not the case. It's -- it's 8 how do we ensure that the -- that if one of the -- one of the 9 other guidelines I use is what are the age of the people that 10 play bingo. 11 MS. ROGERS: Any age can play bingo. 12 MR. FARRELL: Any age can play bingo. So do 13 you want your -- do you want to have some sense of not being 14 able to sell these kind of things to anybody of any age. 15 It's, you know, Will Martin's got VFWs and halls. They've 16 probably got very different standard than somebody who's 17 playing bingo in one of the halls in San Antonio. 18 And so what I'm saying is so one part of what 19 I have to do is I have to kind of balance it out to make sure 20 that we've got certain things that we don't put on there, and 21 if it's -- and I realize it sounds like it might be overly 22 politically correct in what I'm saying. I'm trying very hard 23 to balance to make sure that it's -- it's not offensive to 24 somebody, in general, not just it's not offensive to, you 25 know, a -- a very small group of people that might take it. 0057 1 MS. ROGERS: I completely understand. And you 2 have a very difficult job. I am not -- 3 MR. FARRELL: And but go back -- 4 MS. ROGERS: -- knocking that at all. 5 MR. FARRELL: -- to what you said, Kim, is if 6 -- and actually, I don't think that was holler for dollars 7 officially -- we've been talking to the manufacturer I 8 believe on that one still, but if -- if we find something 9 that's offensive that can be corrected easily, we usually 10 tell them what could be corrected easily. And there's a -- 11 so the goal is to have something that -- for whoever walks 12 into the bingo hall and sees the pull-tabs, that you're not 13 going to have some people who are offended in your bingo hall 14 by that. If it's age inappropriate. 15 MS. ROGERS: I have ladies that tell me 16 they're offended by the names that we called out just a 17 moment ago, but -- 18 MR. FARRELL: Yeah. 19 MS. ROGERS: -- they're not forced to buy 20 them. If -- if one of those tabs was going to offend myself 21 or my players, I can't -- I mean, I have 300 players. You 22 know, I'm going to get 300 different opinions. I -- I would 23 -- I'm not forced to purchase it. But I don't think that it 24 should be denied -- okay, so let me go back. 25 I don't think it should be denied because it's 0058 1 offensive to people who like to go to church and have a Bible 2 and people who don't. You know what I mean? You can't -- 3 both sides are important, they're just as important. Bullet 4 holes I completely understand and you have an amazingly hard 5 job. I just think that we should stay out of politics and we 6 should stay a little bit back on that, that's my opinion. 7 MR. DUNCAN: Tommy Duncan. You know, us as 8 distributors, we should police that ourselves, too. I mean, 9 you know, Ronnie, you know, if I make an offensive pull-tab 10 and I take it to -- to Kim and she -- you know, that -- 11 that's on me. I mean, if she's oh my God, Tommy, why -- why 12 are you bringing me something like this? What is -- is 13 something wrong with you? Well, you know. But to go to your 14 point so we're not going to make anything that offensive, but 15 to go to your point about Lubbock, San Antonio, Austin, every 16 hall operator, we take fliers to those folks. They're free 17 to buy or not buy anything they want. 18 You know, I mean, if I took it to Victoria and 19 it was, you know, Will said hey, you know what, I don't think 20 we want to sell this in this hall, but maybe, you know, Kim 21 might say oh yeah, there's not a problem with it, we'll sell 22 it here, you know, that's -- I kind of agree exactly with 23 what Kim's saying. 24 MS. ROGERS: It almost goes along with price 25 fixing. It's being fixed as to what we can and can't sell. 0059 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, it goes back to the same 2 old political divide. It goes back to there's one philosophy 3 out there that says if I don't like something nobody can have 4 it. And there's the other philosophy that says if I don't 5 like something I won't watch it or I won't buy it. That's 6 kind of where we're at here. 7 CHAIRMAN SMITH: So is the artwork on a pull- 8 tab really -- is that really what sells the pull-tab or is it 9 the money involved and the people selling it? 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: I think -- 11 MR. DUNCAN: I think the art plays a huge part 12 and as well as the money. 13 MS. GREENE: It'll sell it the first time at 14 least. If it's a bad tab, they won't play it again. 15 MS. ROGERS: There's a tab out called Lachumpa 16 (sic)? 17 MR. POHL: La Chancla. 18 MS. ROGERS: They will attack you. 19 MR. BOURGOYNE: It's flip flops. 20 MS. ROGERS: La Chancla. Okay. That's 21 Spanish. Well, does that offend a hall that's the majority 22 of white people? Does that -- no. You know what I mean? 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: I think we have a member of 24 the public who would like -- 25 MR. BAKER: Yeah, Ronnie Baker with Roy Bingo. 0060 1 Yeah, I've done this -- 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Ronnie, come up and pronounce 3 your name for the court reporter. Yeah, get in the 4 microphone if you're not loud enough. 5 MR. BAKER: Yeah, I'm pretty loud. I'm sorry. 6 Thank you, C130s. Ronnie Baker, Roy Bingo Supply. 7 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Wow. 8 MR. BAKER: I've done this in excess of 30 9 years. I worked for a national manufacturer as well. And 10 when I came back to Texas, the thing that amazed me was the 11 tickets that Emile will tell you that you see played 12 throughout the northeast are so graphically sexually 13 suggestive, ho -- I mean, unbelievable tickets. And I came 14 to Texas and all of a sudden we have somebody that's setting 15 here telling us you know what, this may offend people. That 16 I understand. 17 For the 36 years that I've been here in Texas, 18 for -- going through many chairman, there's been one person 19 that has been seen -- who sets that Tommy pointed out as kind 20 of the arbiter of what's going to be approved in the way of 21 artwork. And we've -- and we've had numerous tickets come 22 through and so it kind of makes me feel good if he's saying 23 to Tommy that when it comes back from Veronica there's other 24 groups of people that it's going to be passed around to, 25 because there are things out there that absolutely offend 0061 1 people, myself as a distributor, I'm keenly aware of that. 2 My largest Hispanic hall designed a ticket 3 called Siesta Bingo. It shows a -- a guy dressed in a serape 4 with a -- with a large sombrero dozing under a cactus, and 5 they loved it. I took it to another Hispanic hall in another 6 city and I got thrown out of the hall because I was racist. 7 So you know, and I pointed out well, this came 8 from this hall, and they said well, down here it's racist. 9 The hall will let you know. And -- and I had no idea of that 10 and so I didn't go back in that hall with that ticket. 11 But if what Mike is saying, if you truly are - 12 - when something comes in to Veronica and -- and there's a 13 court of last resort where you guys look at it and say you 14 know, this may be offensive, let me back with the 15 manufacturer which is Emile's group, fantastic. But yeah, I 16 mean, we don't want to put anything out there that offends 17 people. 18 I mean, goodness knows what's -- what's gone 19 on in the last five years here in the United States, we don't 20 need anything offensive, period. So thank you for your time. 21 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I don't know that your 22 siesta would be approved today. 23 MR. BAKER: It probably wouldn't. 24 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Let me ask you a question. I 25 get where we're going with this and I understand your line of 0062 1 questioning. Is there anything that -- I don't think at this 2 point there's anything that the BAC can recommend that staff 3 do. So was there any more decision that -- 4 MR. FARRELL: Well, I -- Trace, to follow up 5 on that, if -- if you want the -- if you want changes to how 6 the tickets are approved, you need to -- you need to look at 7 either the rules or you need to look at the BEA, and then if 8 the BAC wants to recommend to the Commission a set of 9 guidelines on how to do it or recommend a rule change, I 10 would strongly recommend you do it that way. That's the -- 11 that's the best way to do it right now. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Emile, do you want to 13 incorporate this idea into your other pull-tab group that you 14 have, your other work group, and take this in that group as 15 well? 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, that one's complicated 17 enough. 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: You just want to leave this 19 alone for now? 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, as long as we have some 21 understanding with the -- Michael that if there's an issue, 22 they'll bring it back to our attention and give us some kind 23 of appeal process to that, give them more details about why 24 we're doing what we're doing, as long as it's just not some 25 subjective maneuvering in the office that one person doesn't 0063 1 like it, so therefore, no one can get it. 2 CHAIRMAN SMITH: It's been my experience 3 working with Michael that he's very open and receptive to 4 sitting down and talking. 5 MR. FARRELL: I'll put it out again that as I 6 said in the meeting down in San Antonio and anywhere else I 7 go, is if you are -- if there's a difficulty, you have a 8 problem with what's going on, email me, that's the best way. 9 You can try calling me, but email me and I'll get back to 10 you. Talk to Melodye and talk to Trace and talk to -- so, 11 I'm -- I'm happy to discuss individual issues or individual 12 cases on what we thought may be bad. 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: Thank you. 14 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 15 MR. VANCE: You know, I -- this is Tyler 16 Vance. I was just looking at the rule. The overriding 17 priority of this rule is to preserve the integrity of the 18 Commission. And anything that could be interpreted -- 19 there's a lot of -- a lot of laws like this in the world that 20 say if determined by the reasonable person. 21 This is not a reasonable person. I mean, you 22 could read this that if one person out of 15 million in this 23 state could interpret this thing as derogatory then the 24 Commission needs to preserve its integrity and prohibit -- 25 and so if it's -- if it's offensive in Brownsville, but it's 0064 1 not offensive everywhere else, the problem is is like you 2 guys have the perspective of well, if they don't like it they 3 don't have to buy it, but wherever it's sold, it has our name 4 on it. It has the Commission's name on it and it looks like 5 it's been approved and endorsed by the state and so again, 6 the overriding priority of this thing is preserve the 7 Commission's integrity. So we don't want to put anything out 8 that can be sold anywhere anyplace that might be interpreted 9 as derogatory. 10 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Thank you, sir. All right. 11 Any other comments on this? All right. Any other new 12 business? Public comments, questions, concerns? 13 MS. GREENE: I'd like to mention something 14 interesting before that we've talked about, the delinquency 15 rate. 16 MR. FARRELL: I wasn't going to talk about 17 that today. 18 MS. GREENE: You weren't? I'm sorry. 19 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Well, I think he's going to 20 do some research -- 21 MS. GREENE: Okay. 22 CHAIRMAN SMITH: -- and get back to us on 23 that. 24 MS. GREENE: Do that, because -- 25 MR. FARRELL: What it -- what I did -- this is 0065 1 Michael Farrell. What I discussed earlier as a sidebar is 2 we're running some numbers on delinquency rates and filing 3 rates and the like and I'm hoping for the next BAC to have 4 some good numbers to show you so that you -- keeping you 5 aware of what kind of delinquency rates we have. 6 I can say it's not as small as probably you 7 think it is. It's -- delinquency rate of filing. So I don't 8 have the good hard numbers on that, but I do want to present 9 some hard numbers probably at the next BAC, maybe even the 10 next Commission meeting, to let you know. 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Any other new 12 business? Michael, the only question I have for you and it's 13 a question that Kim had asked me in the past few months was 14 when we were reinstituted if you will, we were given fairly 15 decent instructions to abide by a work plan and to make sure 16 that we were being productive being an asset if you will to 17 the Commissioners and the state. Is there anything concrete 18 or a guideline that y'all have for us that we need to be 19 attending to or accomplishing a certain set of goals or are 20 we -- are we on track with what the Commissioners and/or the 21 staff is wanting us to do? 22 MR. FARRELL: I think you're on track. Right 23 now I think you're on track with what the Commissioners 24 wanted. You created a work plan. As long as you can either 25 express that you're fulfilling the work plan or that you've 0066 1 changed the work plan based on conditions that come through, 2 I think you're doing just fine. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 4 MR. FARRELL: I think the presentations you've 5 been presenting, I think the Commissioners would be asking 6 more questions at the Commission meetings if they -- they had 7 -- if they had any questions, I'm sure they would ask. 8 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. Thank you, sir. Any 9 other business? All right. 10 AGENDA ITEM 16 11 CHAIRMAN SMITH: We're going to go on to Item 12 number 16 and set a date of the next meeting. The next 13 Commission meeting, Michael, is April what? 14 MR. FARRELL: April 11th is the Commission. 15 CHAIRMAN SMITH: April 11th is the Commission 16 meeting, okay. All right. And then we should have our next 17 meeting in May then; is that correct? Does anybody have any 18 -- 19 MS. ROGERS: The 16th or 23rd. 20 CHAIRMAN SMITH: 16th or 23rd, anybody have 21 any issues with either one of those? 22 MR. MARTIN: When was that again? 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: 16th of May or the 23rd of 24 May. 25 MR. MARTIN: The 16th is not good. We're 0067 1 bringing 600 wounded veterans in Victoria the next day and 2 we're getting a lot of stuff ready for them. 3 CHAIRMAN SMITH: That's (indiscernible) or -- 4 MR. MARTIN: Well, that's the Warrior's 5 Weekend. 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Warrior's Weekend. 7 MR. MARTIN: We bring them into the field of 8 honor there. 9 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Right. 10 MR. MARTIN: We'll have 3000 American flags in 11 a field sitting up hill there. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Yeah, if you've never seen 13 that, you should go see that. It's an amazing, amazing 14 program. So that's on the 16th; 16th's not good for anybody? 15 MR. MARTIN: 16th and 17th, yes. 16 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. What about the 23rd? 17 MR. MARTIN: 23rd is good. 18 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Melodye, you good with that? 19 MS. GREENE: Yeah. No, I -- didn't bother me 20 a bit. Some graduations might be going on because it's right 21 before Memorial Day. 22 (Pause) 23 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. That's on the 27th. 24 MS. GREENE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 25 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. 23rd, everybody? 0068 1 MR. FARRELL: If it's graduations, is the 30th 2 better because that's the -- but that's the week of Memorial 3 Day, so people are going to be trying to take -- 4 (Pause) 5 MS. GREENE: 23rd's better. 6 CHAIRMAN SMITH: 23rd's better for everybody? 7 Michael, you good with that? All right. We're going to set 8 the date for the next meeting for May the 23rd at 10:00 a.m. 9 And that's time to get in the room, right, Michael? 10 MR. FARRELL: That shouldn't be a problem 11 right now. 12 CHAIRMAN SMITH: Okay. 13 AGENDA ITEM 17 14 CHAIRMAN SMITH: All right. Ladies and 15 gentlemen, I will adjourn the meeting at 11:14 a.m. 16 (Meeting adjourned at 11:14 a.m.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0069 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 STATE OF TEXAS ) 3 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) 4 I, Kimberly C. McCright, Certified Vendor and 5 Notary in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that 6 the above-mentioned matter occurred as hereinbefore set out. 7 I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT the proceedings of such were 8 reported by me or under my supervision, later reduced to 9 typewritten form under my supervision and control and that 10 the foregoing pages are a full, true and correct 11 transcription of the original notes. 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and 13 seal this 26th day of March, 2019. 14 15 /s/ Kimberly C. McCright Kimberly C. McCright 16 Certified Vendor and Notary Public 17 Verbatim Reporting & Transcription, LLC 1322 Space Park Drive, Suite C165 18 Houston, Texas 77058 281.724.8600 19 20 21 22 23 24 25